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Post by kevin on Jan 24, 2007 19:42:31 GMT -5
...says the person miranda got to post for her
she doesnt make any sense mang, its just gibberish.
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Post by head not full of deathvisions on Jan 24, 2007 20:10:52 GMT -5
and one more thing. you're exaggerating, and trying to be a victim. nobody is "e-lynching" you. (another strange word choice in an argument about racism if you ask me) E-Lynching seems accurate enough to me. Your constant reliance on personal attacks as opposed to arguing the completely valid points she's brought up don't help your case at all. I'll admit that she may be wrong about some things, but you've said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that makes me think that you might be right. It's like you're willfully ignorant of the things she's said and go out of your way not to address them at all, whereas she pays you the proper respect of addressing the points you attempt to make, no matter how banal and obvious they are. you must be one of those few who actually sent miranda "praise" for using the word to beging with, pureevilmatt. and if by personal attacks you mean miranda's drug use. there's nothing personal about it. she's made it pretty public and made light of it many many times on this board and on the xiu xiu website (someone once even made a fake announcement of her death from overdose); one could even say she's proud of it...so it's not like i'm going someplace taboo. plus, we all know that stuff can really make you do and say some crazy stuff; so as far as any valid points she makes, i didn't see any; everything does kind of sound like a repetitive, weird rant about fascism and censorship and political corectness, not about the actual issue at hand. |
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Post by head not full of deathvisions on Jan 24, 2007 20:21:30 GMT -5
i don't even know despot and she hasn't stuck up for me and she hasn't written anything on the subject. why is that a strange word of choice? the fact that you don't know why the word "lynching" is a strange word choice says a lot about your level of consciousness of racial issues in history. |
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ihaveaflamegun
Go Away
ΔMi⁻¹ = −αΣn=1NDi[n][Σj∈C[i]Fji[n − 1] + Fexti[n⁻¹]]
Posts: 292
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Post by ihaveaflamegun on Jan 24, 2007 20:44:56 GMT -5
"racism isn't based in fear or hate, it is infact a form of love."
i just have to say that that is bullshit. sounds like something anne coulter would write and defend with never ending earnest even though its plainly transparent.
though it doesn't seem strange that this is all happening. out of all the people in the world to get to write for their blog, they picked you. someone not in the band and someone is known, at least on the internet (stillepost [i used to live in TO), here) to tell lots of stories (true or not) about their happenings (yes, i get it, you do lots of drugs and sleep around, sometimes even with famous people. why do you think anyone cares? "hey guys, write me a letter." write your friends and ask them to email you, why post it?)
the point is, they got someone who has nothing to do with their music to write on a blog at their site. its obvious you have strong opinions and even though we don't agree with you that is alright. i say it's their fault. they wanted to hear what you had to say. so you say it and they don't stop you from posting. they reply. then you reply. then they reply. do they expect you to change your views from one post to the next? they can take away your right to post anytime. but they should not be able to censor you.
you should be able to say anything you want.
xiu xiu's audience is grown up. we can handle it.
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Post by Animals! So Weird on Jan 24, 2007 21:07:39 GMT -5
to add more to this little shindig:
there is a correlation between using "chink" and "tweak/er".
also, consider miranda's INTENT. she did not intend to harm anyone. you, deathvisions, on the other hand, are bombarding her with disrespect and hateful words with the INTENT to bring her down.
EDIT / not to sound like I support Miranda's choice. I definitely do not understand why she chose the word and why she keeps defending it. Not understanding lynchings definitely gives credibility to the point that she has no idea whats going on.... however, the term "lynching" is sort of geocentric..
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adam
Tasty
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Post by adam on Jan 24, 2007 22:04:55 GMT -5
consider miranda's INTENT. she did not intend to harm anyone. you, deathvisions, on the other hand, are bombarding her with disrespect and hateful words with the INTENT to bring her down. Agreed. Although her choice of words was insensitive, she did not mean any harm, and I don't understand why everybody can't just drop this. |
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Post by pureevilmatt on Jan 25, 2007 0:18:32 GMT -5
E-Lynching seems accurate enough to me. Your constant reliance on personal attacks as opposed to arguing the completely valid points she's brought up don't help your case at all. I'll admit that she may be wrong about some things, but you've said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that makes me think that you might be right. It's like you're willfully ignorant of the things she's said and go out of your way not to address them at all, whereas she pays you the proper respect of addressing the points you attempt to make, no matter how banal and obvious they are. you must be one of those few who actually sent miranda "praise" for using the word to beging with, pureevilmatt. and if by personal attacks you mean miranda's drug use. there's nothing personal about it. she's made it pretty public and made light of it many many times on this board and on the xiu xiu website (someone once even made a fake announcement of her death from overdose); one could even say she's proud of it... I didn't send her praise for using it, to be honest, the word didn't even stand out to me. I did however send her an email with praise for her subsequent post defending herself and her use of the word. And by personal attacks, I mean your insistent references to her being "tweaked" or implying that she is somehow brain damaged as a result of that drug use. Does that really have anything to do with the validity of her arguments? Attacking someone as opposed to attacking someone's ideas is a logical fallacy. You're not doing your argument any favors when you divert otherwise civilized discourse with such nonsense. so it's not like i'm going someplace taboo. plus, we all know that stuff can really make you do and say some crazy stuff; so as far as any valid points she makes, i didn't see any; everything does kind of sound like a repetitive, weird rant about fascism and censorship and political corectness, not about the actual issue at hand. Pretending that censorship and crazed overly assertive political correctness aren't related to the issue of her use of the word chink and the shit storm of people objecting to it, (used in a quote, no less), is you being ignorant. Valid arguments have been made... if you don't want to argue them, that's fine, but insulting the person who made the arguments makes you intellectually lazy at the very least, if not braindead yourself. Miranda didn't call anyone a chink, or a nigger, or a cunt. She clearly didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings. If anyone's feelings were hurt, then they are overly sensitive. I agree with her assertion that it is ultimately up to the person reading/hearing the word to decide whether or not they will be offended by it... communication is equal parts implication and inference; broadcast and reception. It's clear to any rational non-self righteous person that the story wasn't intending to offend anyone racially. Sure she was insensitive... but where do we draw the line with sensitivity? There are plenty of things that offend plenty of people in different ways. I thought it was pretty funny when Jaime seriously suggested that instead of using the word "chink", a word that potentially offends a quarter of the earth's population, that she instead use the word "cunt", a word that potentially offends double that amount of people. Everything you say has the potential to offend. Everything. Some words more than others. Where you draw the line in what words you use is a matter of personal situational discretion... theres a socially accepted line, that once crossed does have consequences, and can get you rightly labeled as insensitive... but there are no words that anyone should be forbidden to use. From what I know of her, Miranda is not prejudiced, or in any way a bigot. Nor is she dumb. I think she made some really good points about free speech, and I particularly liked this line: "tact should always be optional, because if tact is enforced by someone/anyone, any group of people (no matter how much they are in the majority), if tact is enforced to a particular vision of what is tactful, then you get fascim, and fascism is worse than racism." |
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Post by patsy neville on Jan 25, 2007 2:48:47 GMT -5
i'm with miranda.
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Post by head not full of deathvisions on Jan 25, 2007 20:52:39 GMT -5
either you did or you didn't. pick one.
what i was trying to imply was that it's easy to divert things from a human, person to person level by bringing in concepts like censorship and political correctness. my biggest problem with miranda was that i never really saw the slightest bit of concern for the feelings of others. right off the bat she was like "i'm the poster child against censorship...i'm revolutionary" without even taking a minute to think that sometimes people are more important than pride and politics.
i've said that i don't think miranda is racist and i also don't think she deliberately meant to offend anyone, but like i said i have a problem with her continuing to defend something that i think was insensitive. and how can you say that someone who has thier feelings hurt by the use of a racial slur is "overly sensitive." who made you the judge of the right level of sensitivity?
another contradiction. either you think she was insensitive or we are "overly sensitive," pick one.
i don't think she should be forbidden to use the word, but like i said, be willing to accept the consequences in peoples reactions to what you say. don't be all fucking surprised and a victim.
[/quote]
i disagree, any hippie on any college campus in a political science class can spew that "fascism" rhetoric all day long...with a good supply of weed on hand.
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Post by head not full of deathvisions on Jan 25, 2007 21:13:13 GMT -5
 represent. miranda 4 lyfe!!! |
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Post by head not full of deathvisions on Jan 25, 2007 21:32:56 GMT -5
to add more to this little shindig: there is a correlation between using "chink" and "tweak/er". also, consider miranda's INTENT. she did not intend to harm anyone. you, deathvisions, on the other hand, are bombarding her with disrespect and hateful words with the INTENT to bring her down. EDIT / not to sound like I support Miranda's choice. I definitely do not understand why she chose the word and why she keeps defending it. Not understanding lynchings definitely gives credibility to the point that she has no idea whats going on.... however, the term "lynching" is sort of geocentric.. hateful words? i don't hate her, but i know she does (has done) a lot of drugs...and thinks it's amusing. plus i've heard people say actual and real hateful things to each other on here. please. www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=tweak&searchmode=nonewhat correlation? from an etymology dictionary: tweak (v.) probably from O.E. twiccian "to pluck," of obscure origin; perhaps related to twitch. Meaning "to make fine adjustments" is attested from 1966. so basically i just said she "make fine adjustments" to her brain.
chink
"slit," 1535, from M.E. chine (with parasitic -k) from O.E. cinu "fissure," related to cinan "to crack, split, gape," from PIE base *gei-, *gi- "to germinate, bloom," connection being in the notion of bursting open. The unrelated derogatory slang word for "a Chinaman" first recorded 1901.
that on the other hand. |
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Post by kitchencabinet on Jan 25, 2007 21:56:26 GMT -5
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Post by dr. strangelove on Jan 25, 2007 23:01:13 GMT -5
ok, i think everyone has made their point, or someone else has made it for you, as it appears that every opinion on hate speech is contained herein somewhere (unless you're a member of a hate group, but that's so uncool to admit nowadays), so i'm finally locking this thread... if you feel the need to continue flaming each other, please do so via e-mail/im/phone/smoke signals/etc... hell, isn't that what livejournal was invented for?
edit: oh yeah, miranda: if you want to have one final comment to finish the thread, im it to me, and i'll add it
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