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Post by neptune on Oct 15, 2009 11:05:25 GMT -5
I don't know whether it's really safe to make such a distinction between commercial art and good art. What about patronage, what about publishers, movie studios, record labels? Everyone's trying to get shit. Even the cavemen drawing antelopes on the wall with charred sticks were doing it to get a better hunt. Is a juicy hunk of fire-cooked venison really that different from a pair of jeans, or a huge wad of cash?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 11:32:48 GMT -5
"Lewis Takes Off His Levi's"
lolololol
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Post by ben on Oct 15, 2009 11:51:35 GMT -5
I don't know whether it's really safe to make such a distinction between commercial art and good art. What about patronage, what about publishers, movie studios, record labels? Everyone's trying to get shit. Even the cavemen drawing antelopes on the wall with charred sticks were doing it to get a better hunt. Is a juicy hunk of fire-cooked venison really that different from a pair of jeans, or a huge wad of cash? I agree, but I'd say there can be a difference between some meat and a load of cash and that's the question of need: maybe the idea of "selling out" is applicable more to those who sell their creative expression in a degrading way to gain an excessive amount of cash that they don't need. This has always been the difference for me between artists who have "integrity" (e.g. Owen) and those who don't (e.g. erm, probably shouldn't give an example!). Kind of like if a caveman drew loads of cave paintings that weren't that great, or tattooed them all over his face, to get a big reaction from the gods and get loads and loads of venison steaks, and then they all went rotten and brought disease on the tribe... |
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Post by Richie on Oct 15, 2009 14:57:18 GMT -5
I on the other hand I fully endorse shameless self-promotion and reaping the benefits of selling out entirely. All 15 of my bands are trying DESPERATELY to sell out. ;D ahahah ahh, i'm just waiting for the altered final fantasy song with lyrics promoting outback steakhouse. "lets go out back tonight!"but really, i think we should all be simply happy for Owen, Leon, and St. Kitt. Now they can keep doing what they do... |
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Post by Scarychips on Oct 15, 2009 15:48:58 GMT -5
"Lewis Takes Off His Levi's" lolololol I was about to post that, but I thought it would be bad. I was wrong. |
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Post by suburbanmyth on Oct 15, 2009 21:48:57 GMT -5
"Lewis Takes Off His Levi's" lolololol Hahahaha!!! Indeed! And seriously? 15 bands?? You rock, sir. ;D ...oh lordy. I don't even know where to start here.... umm, that's a lie, cause I do.  First, I have to say that NO, I don't think Owen's a sell-out!! Holy shit, no, I would never say that! And I'm pretty sure I didn't even mention selling out, although I can see how it was inferred. But dear god, I have nothing but the highest respect for that man and his integrity and the 'starving artist' ideal really just kills artists! haha. And I REALLY don't think that just because art/music is made for commercial use means it isn't 'good' or valued cause hey, look at Lautrec! I sometimes do commercial art myself... and I'm still starving.. wow, that sucks. What I guess I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, art made for commercial use is different than art you make to please yourself... and then sell to someone so they can use it to sell their product. But everyone has to make money somehow. And if artists can't support themselves enough in order for them to do their thing, then it's the world's loss. Sorry guys, my ideas on these matters are completely archaic, but I believe in them Passionately!!! And I might be ranting.... umm, right. Aaaaand I'm shutting up now.  |
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Post by jules on Oct 16, 2009 2:05:39 GMT -5
Perspective is everything...
"Under the patronage of Pope Julius II, Michelangelo painted 12,000 square feet (1,100 m2) of the Sistine Chapel ceiling between 1508 and 1512. He resented the commission, and believed his work only served the Pope's need for grandeur".
But it's still art...
"...the ceiling, and especially The Last Judgement, are widely believed to be Michelangelo's crowning achievements in painting".
sell out / sell in ....Ars gratia artis?.... just thought it was worth pointing out that commercialism doesn't negate art.
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Post by names on Oct 16, 2009 7:17:59 GMT -5
Unless it's for McDonalds and then it totally does.
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Post by Thomas on Oct 16, 2009 15:28:41 GMT -5
buhdadadadah and the fire from my fingers!
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Post by noseovertail on Oct 17, 2009 17:45:24 GMT -5
"Selling-out," to me, is a meaningless buzz phrase solely used to discredit something that one doesn't like. Same goes for "overrated." These terms don't really discuss the art itself, instead halting such discussion by either calling into question whether or not the artist is genuine (in selling-out's case) or acting as though other people's opinions are inherently wrong ("overrated"). What's more, I don't think an artist's reactions to being given money, regardless of how it may change their approach or decisions made, necessarily alters whether or not the art is good.
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Post by JackAltman on Jan 7, 2010 18:51:44 GMT -5
This is probably a well mined thread, sorry for bumping it to the top, but I just saw the commercial this afternoon. Very interesting to know the FF/OP conncetion; I really find the whole campaign exceptionally well designed (The "O, Pioneers!" spot is one of the most visually striking things on television right now...), so "Many Ives" being a part of it is surprising but not surprising.
Yes, they're made to sell jeans, but if it takes a Levi commercial to put beautiful things into the public consciousness, then bring on the Levi commercials.
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Post by betterthanworse on Mar 20, 2013 7:04:51 GMT -5
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Post by Owen from Final Fantasy on Mar 20, 2013 8:58:40 GMT -5
When production companies make commercials, they will usually use some temp music-- unlicensed, placeholder music to capture the mood of whatever product they're selling. That temp music is usually still being used while the commercial is being edited.
When it's time for the temp music to be replaced, if they can't get the temp track licensed, they will turn over the temp music to a music production company to replace it-- although I would certainly have licensed a track to the beautiful city of Zurich!
"Music production company" usually means a guy or girl with a computer and a home studio. Jim Guthrie is one of those guys, for example, that's how he paid his bills for five years between "Now, More Than Ever" and "Sword and Sworcery".
Sometimes the replacement music cuts a little too close to the temp music. In this case it's obvious "Win & Regine" was used as temp as the replacement track is in the same key, tempo, and features the same elements. That "Beach House" VW commercial is another example of egregious co-opting.
I've done lots of work replacing temp music. Film scoring is mostly that. I spent two full days working on a 30 second solo violin piece to replace a snippet of the E+ Bach Prelude for this one film, and the director kept coming back and asking me to get closer, get closer to the original. It's a tough balance, and it's a thankless job.
So I don't really give a shit. I'm flattered that the commercial production company would think "Win & Regine" would be a good soundtrack to the city of Zurich.
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Post by betterthanworse on Mar 20, 2013 12:19:35 GMT -5
or maybe someone's just asking for another maximum black festival?
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Post by jules on Mar 23, 2013 15:42:07 GMT -5
or maybe someone's just asking for another maximum black festival? ;D |
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First, I have to say that NO, I don't think Owen's a sell-out!! Holy shit, no, I would never say that! And I'm pretty sure I didn't even mention selling out, although I can see how it was inferred. But dear god, I have nothing but the highest respect for that man and his integrity and the 'starving artist' ideal really just kills artists! haha. And I REALLY don't think that just because art/music is made for commercial use means it isn't 'good' or valued cause hey, look at Lautrec! I sometimes do commercial art myself... and I'm still starving.. wow, that sucks. What I guess I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, art made for commercial use is different than art you make to please yourself... and then sell to someone so they can use it to sell their product. But everyone has to make money somehow. And if artists can't support themselves enough in order for them to do their thing, then it's the world's loss. Sorry guys, my ideas on these matters are completely archaic, but I believe in them Passionately!!! And I might be ranting.... umm, right. Aaaaand I'm shutting up now. 
