FloatingDowntheLiffey
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Post by FloatingDowntheLiffey on Sept 20, 2004 18:10:33 GMT -5
under-educated, impressionable, inner-city youths never offered an opportunity otherwise, recruited by persuasive manipulators under the pretext of HONOR, EDUCATION, and DUTY
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FloatingDowntheLiffey
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Post by FloatingDowntheLiffey on Sept 20, 2004 18:10:58 GMT -5
still like the song though--that doesnt invalidate the message
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Post by dudeman on Sept 20, 2004 19:02:15 GMT -5
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Post by jerkoftheyear on Sept 27, 2004 18:38:40 GMT -5
This song disgusts me, as does whoever asked "what else are they?" to the "not everyone is a jock" comment.
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Post by dr. strangelove on Sept 27, 2004 22:55:14 GMT -5
attacking a sovereign nation and killing innocent people for personal grudges and/or oil disgusts me
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Post by dudeman on Sept 28, 2004 3:18:25 GMT -5
i'd hope it would disgust everyone, but the american kids dying in the desert aren't the ones who decided to do so
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Post by dr. strangelove on Sept 29, 2004 1:44:30 GMT -5
but one could argue that they are supporting the war simply by participating... i don't believe it's unheard of for military personnel to disagree with an order. yes, they could be court-martialled and even imprisoned, but it is still a choice they have to make; personally, i would rather choose prison over killing helpless, innocent people...
yes, not every person in the military necessarily fits the image portrayed by jamie in the track, but it's also a stereotype that certain individuals within the military DO fulfill... jamie was responding to a certain perspective he has of members of the military, and he did so extremely honestly, despite the fact that his perspective is not currently a popular one... i personally respect his decision, just as i admire his decision to candidly face many personal dilemmas within the rest of his music... perhaps it is easier for me to accept the lyrics to this song since i hold similar political views and i despise the current administration
i don't like the manipulation used by the military to recruit new members, and i understand why people of disadvantaged backgrounds join the military... i received numerous recruitment attempts myself... however, i do feel that anyone who was involved in the invasion of iraq is guilty of supporting a pointless and horrendous event in our history, no matter what their personal history... if anything, "support our troops (OH)" is a light attack... being called a stupid, unmotivated jock is probably better than being called a murderer
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Post by dudeman on Sept 30, 2004 0:32:25 GMT -5
it's much easier to say that from your position, than actually being in their shoes. and in case i wasn't clear i am completely against the war and everything the bush administration is doing. i also acknowledged that some in the military do fit the stereotype. but regardless the soldiers are not the people who we should be attacking, it's the people upstairs. i will be voting and i hope everyone else does.
and like i said i still love the song and i love xiu xiu i just completely disagree with 1 line in 1 song, it was more than saying you're a stupid jock. it went on to say why should i care if you get killed
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Post by interview on Sept 30, 2004 18:09:29 GMT -5
jamie stewart actually talks about this exact same line in an interview!!! here is the excerpt: HM: "Support Our Troops": on it, you say, "Why should I care if you get killed?" in reference to the troops. Do you really mean that? Is that a serious statement? Is that your personal stance, even towards people who might be good people, but have been misled into something unhealthy? JS: See, I don't really…That's obviously a really difficult statement to justify, but obviously within the context of what people have chosen to do with their lives, it's a little bit difficult to think of it in other terms sometimes. Not all the time, but certainly sometimes. I don't think that people who have joined the military have been misled about what their job in the military is. The job of the military, clearly, is to kill people for imperialistic, corporate government. I feel entirely differently about people who were involved in the Vietnam era because there was the draft and people were forced to do it, but now it's totally voluntary, and people are choosing to become assassins and killers for the government. The song is based on an article where a journalist followed a Special Forces troop into Baghdad, and the troop just talked constantly about how much they wanted to kill people, and how they were hired killers, and they were really into it. And they were completely unapologetic about it and not thinking about the political context at all, or about the repercussions of what they were doing, both to themselves and to the families of the people that they were blowing up. Now, one thing that people have brought up to me that I didn't think about at the time that I was writing the song is: what about the people who are living in total destitution and they just don't have any other options? And, that's not something that I had thought about. Sometimes I think that can be a valid case, but on the other hand, how destitute do you have to be to become a murderer? I'm sure that's not people's motivation, but that's what the point of the military is, and the fact that that is a possibility for someone joining the military isn't a mystery. Bearing that in mind, I feel almost entirely unsympathetic for people who are middle class who decide to join the military. If you want to be of service to your country, join AmeriCorps, or something like that. I just cannot abide… It's inexplicable to me that someone would want to do that with their life. So, when I say, "Why should I care if you get killed?" I'm asking that question clearly. I'm not completely dismissing the idea of why somebody should care… HM: You're asking them to justify themselves? JS: Or asking somebody who's listening to think about why they should care. I sincerely, sincerely pray every single day that people involved in the war on terrorism don't kill anybody, and don't get killed, and get home safely so that they can move on and do something else with their life. It's not that I want anybody to die. But…it's a difficult, miserable, horrible situation. And question. the whole interview is available here: www.hybridmagazine.com/music/0904/xiuxiu.shtml
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Saiken
Go Away
rub me belly
Posts: 114
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Post by Saiken on Oct 1, 2004 7:01:53 GMT -5
defending their country? anyway many people join an army because of a false motivation because they misinterpretated their feelings ..and some are just plain stupid regarding the song: I don't really like it... jamie's taciturn vocabulary (on purpose) which give us a such a close look at his feelings all the time make him seem stupid in this song... he's a very emotional character but there are subjects that should be treated with reason no matter how hard it is. It is easy to say what some people do is wrong .. but I wonder what he would have done when he would get the order to ... anyway.... war is a delicate matter....
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Post by sinclair on Oct 1, 2004 14:12:03 GMT -5
i like the track because it's a bit satirical and dot.commie.. "like,. . you totally did know". art and expression are always extreme, otherwise, what's the point? My old neighbors joined the army because the kids lived in a beat up extended family type of living situation and had no other options. they kept getting into legal trouble, and stealing from my house. good old fashioned discipline'l snap those whipper snappers right into shape. Any institution, whether it be your job, school, marriage, driving, religion are based around a spectrum of rules and expectations. nobody enjoys doing their homework. i hate runnng, but it's good for the heart and my fat ass. War sucks. But some individuals greatly benefit from joining the armed forces. They are not afraid to die.
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Post by brendanblarsen on Oct 12, 2004 4:33:23 GMT -5
i registered specifically to say that the noises on this track are absolutely incredible.
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Post by pantsinants on Oct 14, 2004 17:17:08 GMT -5
when the military is all about killing, regardless if it is for freedom or not, then how is anyone in the military not a jock just interested in killing? If they weren't then we wouldn't need military's. The whole world would just live in harmony, but that wont happen because the human race is bent on killing. I am disgusted to call myself human.
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Post by markees on Oct 14, 2004 19:40:10 GMT -5
the noises on this track are absolutely incredible. ditto.
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