Post by neilsucks on Dec 4, 2004 13:20:15 GMT -5
i found this and thought it was a really rad and well thought out rant/debate/conversation.
"FUN ON THE NOTHING NICE TO SAY MESSAGE BOARD
Apparently Rancid are signing to a major label. Yawn. A thread about this is posted on my message board, and the world is in upheaval about Rancid "selling out".
What follows is a conversation between myself and another board member who goes by the handle "a surgery" (NOTE: I didn't edit any of the swearing out [including my own], so like, read with caution and stuff):
--
Mitch wrote:
It's funny to hear people call these guys sellouts for signing to a major label considering their third album featured a video which was, at the time, in heavy rotation on MTV and at least two (probably more) songs on top 40 radio.
So why does "selling" out suddenly consist so specifically of signing with one of the top five most major of major labels? I think people should stop throwing around terms they don't understand.
P.S. Rancid sucked BEFORE they were making money, the end.
--
a surgery wrote:
it's funny because the band used to be so outspoken about major labels and the like. they turned down a bunch of big money deals in the 90's and sort of prided themselves on that. so, yeah, i would consider that selling out.
--
Mitch wrote:
Yeah, so did Jawbreaker. So did Chumbawhumba. Funny how quickly people compromise their "stringent moral beliefs" when you wave some money in their faces. Not like any of Rancid's fans have really deep political convictions. I'm sorry, but if I still believed half the shit I believed when I was 14, I'd probably be dead by now.
--
a surgery wrote:
call me crazy, i have a problem with bands that 'pretend' to stand for something and then go around and contradict themselves. i don't mean to sound self-righteous, but how can you sustain interest in a band that breaks the same moral code they've been preaching? they're officially null and void in my book.
but we're talking about rancid, who cares.
--
Mitch wrote:
Well, you have to understand the flagrant knee-jerk rhetoric so prevelant in punk rock. I mean, how many opinions and idealogies that you hear kids with mohawks and leathers standing on chairs shouting about have been really tried, tested, and contemplated deeply?
I'm not trying to generalize here, but punk seems to be so heavily about the fashion, and not just the fashion of wearing your hair spiked and putting patches on all your shitt, but the fashion of being as left wing as possible, and of adhering to all the political constructs so heavily ranted about by the other punks. "Oh, punks aren't supposed to like capitalism? Okay then, I don't like capitalism. Punks don't like major labels? Then I hate them too."
And so on.
People who bathe themselves so vigorously in other peoples' ideas eventually wake up to find themselves naked in a lukewarm tub of rhetoric and half baked theories. They rebel against the rebellion that they once found so chic. The cut their hair, they join the Army, they buy an Armani suit and a BMW and the trade stock on Wall Street and get married and have 2.5 children and a dog and a two story in suburbia and noone ever hears from them again.
I know this. I've seen this. And I think it's a similar situation with a lot of these bands. Imagine being in a band and constantly shouting as loud as you can that you would never sign to a major label, never sell your songs for s commercial, never play a video on MTV. Then one day a representative comes up to you with a fistful of hundred dollar bills and better distribution than even Mordam can offer you.
Suddenly you realize that those ideals you've been gripping tightly against your heart were never yours to begin with, they were just rehashed from all the people you met whose albums inspired you to start the band and who booked your shows and drew your flyers and worked the sound when you played and produced your records. These ideas were never yours to begin with. And since you have no life experience or real convictions keeping those "ideals" from slipping from your grasp and tumbling to the ground beneath you, the only thing holding you back from letting go is the shame you know you'll feel when you have to face all those friends and tell them the "bad news".
"Sorry guys," you'll say. "I decided to make some money."
Boo.
And of course you won't make any money. Your album won't do very well, you'll go way overbudget on production, you realize that you don't see any royalties because you were too busy watching the wad of cash in the rep's hand to read your contract. Your band will break up, and you'll become a reference someone makes on a message board explaining to all the other kids why signing to a major label is stupid.
Of course, that kid didn't really come up with the idea either. The vicious circle continues.
So it's no surprise to me when a band, ANY band, signs to a major label, regardless of what they've said in the past. Everyone changes their minds, that's just a natural part of being human. When I was three I used to believe in Santa Clause. When I was ten I thought Anarchy was a cool idea. Now that I'm twenty I think that spending all my time reading sci fi novels and drinking coffee is a perfectly viable pasttime.
The hard truth is, none of us have any fucking clue. Ever.
The end. For real this time."
"FUN ON THE NOTHING NICE TO SAY MESSAGE BOARD
Apparently Rancid are signing to a major label. Yawn. A thread about this is posted on my message board, and the world is in upheaval about Rancid "selling out".
What follows is a conversation between myself and another board member who goes by the handle "a surgery" (NOTE: I didn't edit any of the swearing out [including my own], so like, read with caution and stuff):
--
Mitch wrote:
It's funny to hear people call these guys sellouts for signing to a major label considering their third album featured a video which was, at the time, in heavy rotation on MTV and at least two (probably more) songs on top 40 radio.
So why does "selling" out suddenly consist so specifically of signing with one of the top five most major of major labels? I think people should stop throwing around terms they don't understand.
P.S. Rancid sucked BEFORE they were making money, the end.
--
a surgery wrote:
it's funny because the band used to be so outspoken about major labels and the like. they turned down a bunch of big money deals in the 90's and sort of prided themselves on that. so, yeah, i would consider that selling out.
--
Mitch wrote:
Yeah, so did Jawbreaker. So did Chumbawhumba. Funny how quickly people compromise their "stringent moral beliefs" when you wave some money in their faces. Not like any of Rancid's fans have really deep political convictions. I'm sorry, but if I still believed half the shit I believed when I was 14, I'd probably be dead by now.
--
a surgery wrote:
call me crazy, i have a problem with bands that 'pretend' to stand for something and then go around and contradict themselves. i don't mean to sound self-righteous, but how can you sustain interest in a band that breaks the same moral code they've been preaching? they're officially null and void in my book.
but we're talking about rancid, who cares.
--
Mitch wrote:
Well, you have to understand the flagrant knee-jerk rhetoric so prevelant in punk rock. I mean, how many opinions and idealogies that you hear kids with mohawks and leathers standing on chairs shouting about have been really tried, tested, and contemplated deeply?
I'm not trying to generalize here, but punk seems to be so heavily about the fashion, and not just the fashion of wearing your hair spiked and putting patches on all your shitt, but the fashion of being as left wing as possible, and of adhering to all the political constructs so heavily ranted about by the other punks. "Oh, punks aren't supposed to like capitalism? Okay then, I don't like capitalism. Punks don't like major labels? Then I hate them too."
And so on.
People who bathe themselves so vigorously in other peoples' ideas eventually wake up to find themselves naked in a lukewarm tub of rhetoric and half baked theories. They rebel against the rebellion that they once found so chic. The cut their hair, they join the Army, they buy an Armani suit and a BMW and the trade stock on Wall Street and get married and have 2.5 children and a dog and a two story in suburbia and noone ever hears from them again.
I know this. I've seen this. And I think it's a similar situation with a lot of these bands. Imagine being in a band and constantly shouting as loud as you can that you would never sign to a major label, never sell your songs for s commercial, never play a video on MTV. Then one day a representative comes up to you with a fistful of hundred dollar bills and better distribution than even Mordam can offer you.
Suddenly you realize that those ideals you've been gripping tightly against your heart were never yours to begin with, they were just rehashed from all the people you met whose albums inspired you to start the band and who booked your shows and drew your flyers and worked the sound when you played and produced your records. These ideas were never yours to begin with. And since you have no life experience or real convictions keeping those "ideals" from slipping from your grasp and tumbling to the ground beneath you, the only thing holding you back from letting go is the shame you know you'll feel when you have to face all those friends and tell them the "bad news".
"Sorry guys," you'll say. "I decided to make some money."
Boo.
And of course you won't make any money. Your album won't do very well, you'll go way overbudget on production, you realize that you don't see any royalties because you were too busy watching the wad of cash in the rep's hand to read your contract. Your band will break up, and you'll become a reference someone makes on a message board explaining to all the other kids why signing to a major label is stupid.
Of course, that kid didn't really come up with the idea either. The vicious circle continues.
So it's no surprise to me when a band, ANY band, signs to a major label, regardless of what they've said in the past. Everyone changes their minds, that's just a natural part of being human. When I was three I used to believe in Santa Clause. When I was ten I thought Anarchy was a cool idea. Now that I'm twenty I think that spending all my time reading sci fi novels and drinking coffee is a perfectly viable pasttime.
The hard truth is, none of us have any fucking clue. Ever.
The end. For real this time."
