|
Post by r-dub on Aug 13, 2004 18:30:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by emmanuelxgoldstein on Aug 14, 2004 18:07:12 GMT -5
All of those sorts of things are cool. Good ideas boys, good ideas. Obviously, I should mention that I agree. haha.
Another thing that I like about Michael Moore is the simplicity of his work. Also, the guy's been doing this for a long time and hasn't recieved much credit up until Bowling For Columbine made him an overnight success. Personally, I don't know if the guy insanely intelligent, or just an average guy with a knack for making documentaries. Either way, he makes powerful films, and what makes him so effective in my opinion is his appeal and ability to speak to "the common man" (if you will) about important issues. Maybe that means "dumbing it down" a little sometimes and not getting the entire point across, but at least he's helping. And that's a start. I remember seeing Bowling For Columbine at an early showing just before it came out and even a lot of people who would normally love that stuff were surprised and thought it was extremely biased.
An interesting note on that too, on our way to Seattle a couple weeks back to see The Answer, Champion, Terror, and Sick Of It All, we were discussing some of these things. My friend Warren told us about some of his relatives who were Republican supporters in the states, who had watched Farenheight 911. I haven't see it personally, so I don't know exactly what it contains, but I've heard many things about it were shocking to a lot of people. Anyway, they were basically in complete denial, and just shugged it off as "Oh, well, we don't really like that biased media... it's just too biased." Maybe they really do have complete tunnel vision? I know it's hard to accept the facts sometimes...
Another thing I've been thinking about lately is all of the dissent within activist movements. I know it's happened a fair bit in Vancouver, in fact. I was discussing the same thing with a guy from California too. A lot of it is organized by tired old union bureaucrats. My friend was saying that most of the people who participate there are old middle aged guys who put anti-Bush stickers on the back of their Saturn as a means of rebellion. In Vancouver, StopWar.ca was in support of a UN occupation of Iraq, but not a US occupation. There was a number of groups that didn't support any kind of occupation (and really, can you blame them?) and they were kicked out of the coalition. I know from having talks with Ivan Drury last December about it, that the collective he belongs to had basically literally been plotted against and then thrown out. It's just difficult for me to watch this because we all want to make the world a better place (you can say the same about other individuals, but in vastly different ways), but we can't even manage to band together in solidarity and make some kind of change. Instead we lay stagnant bickering amongst ourselves.
So, really, I say one of the best things we can do right now is just organize in some way whilst continuing the things we're already doing. It's another age-old thing, but it helps.
|
|
|
Post by Olga Ogilvie on Aug 14, 2004 18:49:06 GMT -5
America is an Empire that uses the term "democracy" as a mask. The whole time Clinton was in power, Bush's team were making the plans that they're carrying out now. The papers they were preparing were saying things like - The one thing we need is an attack on American soil to align the common man with the idea of a preemptive strike.
When we look at America as an Empire, and stop kidding ourselves about it being a democracy, it makes sense that "every president needs a war," and that the "war on terror" or the "war to get us a bunch of oil" would be the simple choice for them. That website that tallies up the cost of the war is right. But on the other hand, it's not. This war is essential to the American Empire. If it didn't have a war, it would die. The cost of guns and ammo and war machinery is the price of it's own existence.
Every Empire has it's day, and America will too. As far as countries go, America (and Canada) is still an experiment. The term "Superpower" no longer applies, as nuclear weapons make any country supremely powerfull.
North America was brought out of the great depression by the second world war, and this war is the prop that is holding up our whole society now. If we are determined to end injustices like this war, we have to be prepared to enter into a new society that is not based on Empire building, and to topple the Empire Builders will not be easy. They can not be voted out of existence, and violence will only breed violence. I'll agree with R dub that education is essential, but I think that when we see this war as a primary peice of the fabric of our society, and understand that world justice goes to the core of how we live, education takes on a new dynamic. I don't know where that goes, but I do know that stopping Bush, or ending this war will won't stop the Empire Builders that drive world wide injustice.
some people tell me that I can't complain if I don't vote. Those people vote once every four years. I vote everyday with the dollars I spend.
The answer must be somewhere in the build up of the understanding of the people untill critical mass makes it impossible for the Empire Builders to maintain control.
Or maybe there's an answer in doing what we can as individuals in the every day circumstances we find ourselves in. There has to be an answer that we can provide to the homeless drunks/junkies/prostitutes that populate east van. I was wondering about the idea of a drug clinic that would provide free drugs to junkies. Like the safe injection site that would also supply the drugs. It'd be cheaper on society. Crime and desperation goes down. The time spent turning tricks or nabbing stereos could be spent figuring out ways to build more positive lifestyles and habits. Just thinking about it, don't know if it's a stupid idea or not.
|
|
|
Post by r-dub on Aug 16, 2004 11:53:19 GMT -5
olga, i wish EVERYONE thought like this.... "I vote everyday with the dollars I spend. "
|
|
|
Post by Arkham on Aug 16, 2004 22:08:24 GMT -5
Every Empire has it's day, and America will too. As far as countries go, America (and Canada) is still an experiment. you say experiment, i say bastard continent The answer must be somewhere in the build up of the understanding of the people untill critical mass makes it impossible for the Empire Builders to maintain control. just watched the corporation today and they talk a lot about making the coporation accountable to democracy and that that will remove a lot of the things that characterize them as psychopathic great satans. Or maybe there's an answer in doing what we can as individuals in the every day circumstances we find ourselves in. There has to be an answer that we can provide to the homeless drunks/junkies/prostitutes that populate east van. send em to iraq! I was wondering about the idea of a drug clinic that would provide free drugs to junkies. Like the safe injection site that would also supply the drugs. It'd be cheaper on society. that is a foolish idea because it wouldn't go for a day without some family slapping a lawsuit on the program for the government supplying their son/daughter's first hit of heroin. not only that but giving a steady supply of hardcore drugs for no cost to the general populace is going to create a whole different spectrum of drug problems in a community. what kind of person qualifies for the free smack i wonder? do you have to look like a hooker or a bum at the end of his rope? Crime and desperation goes down. The time spent turning tricks or nabbing stereos could be spent figuring out ways to build more positive lifestyles and habits. the desperation goes down until they get their next craving for it, which doesn't actually solve the problem. it seems like the same sort of thing where cops give homeless people train tickets to get them out of the city. you're just subduing it without dealing with the issue itself.
|
|
|
Post by Olga on Aug 21, 2004 20:46:30 GMT -5
"Out of these troubled times....the New World Order can emerge." George Sr. -Sept11, 1991
"Further, the process of transformation is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor." Project For A New American Century - Sept 2000
That project is what the Bush Cronies did during the Clinton years. All the dudes that were with Sr. stuck around and are the props pushing up Jr.
"The Pearl Harbor of the 21st Century took place today..." Jr's Diary - 11:30PM Sept 11, 2001
|
|
|
Post by emmanuelxgoldstein on Aug 22, 2004 23:16:47 GMT -5
I don't know if it was the exact same, but, again, the former Reagan admininistration makes up the majority of the Bush administration.
The plan for the New America and age of a new world order is disgusting, to be blunt.
Most people I've even mentioned it to would either deny it completely or had a hard time believing it. Either that or, then again, why should they care? Most people go under the guise that "Well, who would you rather be the hedgemonical power of dominance in the world? At least they're a democracy." - I can't even begin in on why that's a bullshit pro-lethargy attitude.
|
|
|
Post by Olga on Aug 22, 2004 23:25:18 GMT -5
I haven't heard any connection between bush and regan. Do you know who in particular? I don' t know if Condolesa Rice was in Sr's buddy group, but I think most of the other majors were.
|
|
|
Post by r-dub on Aug 23, 2004 14:29:32 GMT -5
republicans are republicans. bush is reagan etc.
|
|
|
Post by emmanuelxgoldstein on Aug 23, 2004 19:03:42 GMT -5
Basically.
I read it about almost two years ago in Noam Chomsky - 9-11 though, so I don't know for sure. *shrug*
|
|