|
Post by Steve M on Jun 16, 2003 19:05:34 GMT -5
well then i dont know whats the point of even calling yourself a satanist then, except to bring upon yourself everyones own bias' of what they think that is... something as stupid and trivial as sXe... oops. and dont get me wrong. im no christian.
xians also say that "they just.... are".
peace
hey! do satanists beleive in peace?
|
|
|
Post by jonny hughes on Jun 16, 2003 19:32:28 GMT -5
Even though my name says "Cran," this is Josiah. That anyone would say that Christians or "Satanists" are the way they are because they just are is just ridiculous. I am a Christian, and it is certainly a choice. A choice that I have to make every day at all times. I have to choose to do what I know is right, and I have to choose not to fall into traps that seem so easy to fall into. I mess up all the time, but that's because my humanity sometimes takes place of my Christianity, and the spirit of God that I believe is with me. People get so bummed out on Christianity when it doesn't meet their expectations, and they don't get exactly what they want. They expect every part of their life to be easy because of their faith, when it is essentially quite a bit harder. To accuse Christianity of being entirely hypocritical and worthless, and to embrace a life of attempting to satisfy yourself is to entirely take the easy way out, which certainly doesn't satisfy. I can't really think of something that deligitimizes the religion itself, but the North American expectation of Christianity to solve all of humanity's problems with virtually no effort or sacrifice greatly hinders the powerful effects that Christianity, and more importantly the Holy Spirit, can have on our lives.
I'm sorry if I sound preachy or whatever, I'm just so sick of reading all of this moronic bullshit about how much Christianity sucks by people who just believe that Christians are hypocrites and they use guilt to manipulate and all that shit. Christians (at least the Christians that I associate myself with) are humans, plain and simple. We do have a moral code that we try to adhere to, but that is not the sole purpose of our beliefs. True Christianity revolves around the acceptance that humans make mistakes, and thankfulness for grace and mercy.
Scumfuc, I'm sorry if what I wrote didn't sound like Slipknot lyrics enough for you.
|
|
|
Post by Steve M on Jun 16, 2003 19:40:42 GMT -5
sweeeeet
see scumfuc i told you, it was an easy setup though
but also lets not forget how unfuckablewith jo is...
B O O M
|
|
|
Post by Frazer Johnson on Jun 17, 2003 0:17:45 GMT -5
Cran... it's ok to sound Preachy... you're expressing your beliefs on your religion, and it is the topic we're discussing so people must be open to reading those beliefs or they can fuck off to some other thread. I fully agree with you in regards to people expecting everything to be easy because of their faith and how it just does not work that way. Satanists believe this too, which is why we believe that instead of prayer, people should spend their time actually doing something to accomplish their goals. Perhaps I came off as too harsh in my original response to this thread: I do not think that Christianity is ENTIRELY hypocritical, just some aspects of it. Worthless... well I personally do not believe the dogma of Christianity, do not believe in God, the Holy Spirit, or any of the like, so yes I do find it an entirely worthless faith. I do not look down on people who do believe in it, but if asked to give an honest opinion I do believe that they are wrong. That's fine though... people are free to believe whatever they want... sometimes people of different faiths (Satanism is actually more of a lack of faith but I think you get the idea) just need to be able to "agree to disagree" and accept that they truely believe each other to be wrong. As far as moronic bullshit... perhaps you should rethink your words. A question was asked to name things that people thought were wrong with Christianity... I did exactly that, in an intelligent manner. Just because you do not like or believe what I have to offer on the subject does not make my answer "moronic bullshit."
When dealing with choosing a lifestyle aimed solely at satisfying one's self... I see nothing at all wrong with this. I believe that there is only one life... the one we're living, and so rather than try to live a life that gets us in the good books and secures our "afterlife" I'd rather just enjoy myself and live like I want to. And yes... it is really satisfying. I'm not going to heaven or hell, so I might as well live for now and enjoy myself in the process.
I find your comment on acceptance to be an interesting one. While if Christianity was followed as it was originally meant to, or as it "should" be, then I could agree with you entirely. Unfortunately, actions of The Church go very much against acceptance. Example: the issue of gay marriages. It would be nice if all were accepted, but it just isn't true. I have not come across any non-acceptance in my years of studying and being a part of Satanism. I am not a Church of Satan (the organization startred by Anton Szandor Lavey that is at the center of what true Satanism really is) member (yet) but I am quite familiar with their beliefs and such... and I know they are very open to members of all sex, race, sexuality, etc. because Satanism accepts people and their natural instincts as they are, and encourages individualism above all else.
When it comes to Satanists saying that they "just are" and don't change their life to coincide with Satanic belief or dogma... this is for the most part very true. Satanists and the Church of Satan do not go soliciting themselves, and do not go looking for members. Instead, people who read up and find that they agree with the beliefs go looking to "join up". By the way... the CoS does not require people join them in order to be Satanists... the only requirement to be a Satanist is to think and live like one... which anybody that calls themself a Satanist is ALREADY DOING anyway!
As for your Slipknot lyrics comment... I'm not a fan of Slipknot, and it's too bad you took my comments and came to the conclusion that I am some metalhead that's trying to be evil. Let's not turn this discussion into personal attacks, please.
Note: though I believe my views to be very much in line with that of the Church of Satan, I do not wish to represent that organization in any way shape or form, as only a registered member of the CoS can do such a thing.
|
|
|
Post by Tyler Onfire on Jun 17, 2003 12:35:14 GMT -5
Scumfuc, if you don't believe in God and jesus and the like, why do yoy call yourself satanist? Why not call yourself atheist, agnostic or some other name that doesn't have a christian undertone. I don't believe in any life after this one either, but I don't see where the satan thing comes into it. metaphorical maybe? still seems weird.
way to stand up for your beliefs though!
|
|
|
Post by Frazer Johnson on Jun 17, 2003 14:13:10 GMT -5
As far as having a Christian undertone goes Satan is used sort of metaphorically. Satanists see Satan not as being some creature or spirit that reigns in hell or anything like that, but as a force in nature that represents the natural impulses, instincts, and drives of people. Originally perhaps Satan and Satanism were chosen as names for the sole reason that they are about as opposite things to call yourself as you can get from Christianity... I'm not sure. However whenever I or another Satanist refers to Satan... that's what we are talking about. Satanism encourages acting out on those natural drives and instincts that bring pleasure into one's life. Fetishes, for instance. If somebody has a sexual fetish that brings pleasure into their life, Satanism encourages acting out on this, because it only makes their life better and does not hurt anybody else (Satanism is vehemently against any sort of sexual acts with others that are against their wishes). Other religions may have another word to refer to the acting out on things like fetishes: this word is most likely "Sodomy."
|
|
|
Post by Steve M on Jun 17, 2003 19:25:08 GMT -5
aw, what about my questions?
one of my biggest problems with any religion is anyone who is seeking a liestyle aimed at satisfying themselves.
and in naming their religion satanism or whatever they were pretty much fucking themselves. so far this seems to be the dumbest and most arrogant religion ever. they shouldve named it stupidism
i hope any satanist around me has the courtesy to tell me so i can fuck off.
|
|
|
Post by Frazer Johnson on Jun 18, 2003 2:47:30 GMT -5
Thanks for that Noisy. I can see that you are not willing to add anything worthwhile to the conversation, and so I will just try and ignore your contributions. Perhaps if I see something slightly more thought-provoking I'll take to answering it. I realize that discussion on Satanism is not something everyone can really do without resorting to something along the lines of your last post. Oh well... uh... Sex Pisols forever!
|
|
|
Post by Steve M on Jun 18, 2003 16:27:13 GMT -5
as if....
3 points dude, 3 contributions
sorry they werent good enough.
at first i though that was cran responding to you again.
and ya, i was actually being COMPLETELY serious
resort to that.
|
|
|
Post by Frazer Johnson on Jun 19, 2003 4:44:39 GMT -5
Alright Noisy I will look past you're insulting what I believe in and address the issues that you've raised.
Why call it Satanism? I believe I have answered this one already as to why it was originally called Satanism. Why I call myself a Satanist? Because some time ago I felt the need to label myself, and so I set out to do a bit of research on some major religions to see if my beliefs and opinions coincided with their faiths. I found nothing... until I broadened my search and started looking up pagans, wiccans, and finally (I did not understand what the religion was all about so I didn't even think to learn about it) Satanism. As I read, I realized that this made sense to me, that I believe in it, and that this is what I am. I believe in it, and I'm proud of it. I am a Satanist. Same with straight-edge.... I don't give a fuck about other people's biases. I believe in it, and I'm proud of it.
Why do you have a problem with a lifestyle aimed at satisfying ones self? I don't believe there is any heaven or hell. I believe that this is the only life I've got, so I may as well live it for me and be happy today instead of worry about the "afterlife".
Finally, I just am not quite sure why Satanism is the most arrogant religion you've come across. Can you please explain why you think this way?
|
|
|
Post by Steve M on Jun 19, 2003 11:55:37 GMT -5
(exhausted sigh) insulting? i dont mean to insult you as much as your "religion", which i really do think is silly... as proud as you may be, thats still my opinion, true? i know you already said why they called it satanism, but i (no being a satanist) am free to state my opinion without being asked for it... hmmm, i think you may be wrong when you say you dont give a fuck what anyone thinks about your beliefs... how old are you? i understand that you feel you need to look out for number one, mostly i made the easy assumption, and thats exactly why i find it arrogant. most religions seem to be about serving others somehow. now thats conviction... to put someone else ahead of yourself. (and i dont mean specifically YOU) as far as afterlife goes, theres no way to say either way so any religion which offers good times when im dead seems pretty stupid. we may possibly agree here, eh?
anyhow, if i wanted to insult you personally i woulda done a better job. its way to easy (for anyone to insult anyone).....
|
|
|
Post by Frazer Johnson on Jun 19, 2003 14:39:14 GMT -5
That's why I said insulting what I believe in. It's cool. I'm 19, started referring to myself as a Satanist when I was 16. Really I don't care if other people don't like what I believe in, but that doesn't prevent me from discussing and debating about it, perhaps trying to let other people understand more what it's all about.
Also, this is a message board dealing with religious and philosphical debate, is it not? Anybody who reads other people's posts is asking for their opinions.
|
|
|
Post by gandhi G on Jun 19, 2003 17:57:22 GMT -5
don't mean to pick on you scumfuc, or pick apart what you wrote. but .... you have to seperate the faith/religion from the people, just like you said us humans have these "natural instincts" that we don't have full control over. you say thats fine. i don't agree. those deadly sins are redflaged. they seem to be sins set for deterioration of not only our mind but everything that surrounds. like the faith we are talking of now. i don't think i've ever really understood the concept of guilt for sins, whatever you classify a sin, and why christians like to use it as a tool for whatever means, i dunno, it seems twisted, but thats still someones natural intinct right? guilt is sometimes trained to be like a wound, never healing, always growing so that when touched upon it, a person will easily feel it, and thats not exclusive to xianity. and i agree that it shouldn't be a part of it at all. and about prayer being a waste of time or whatever you said. prayer is part of the action that you desire. sometimes prayer might be a lot like medtations in that you just "be still and know". it helps the process of your actions to think them out first. prayer might not always be a request list either. and if prayer is a farce then i am the luckiest motherfucker on the planet.
as far as satanism is concerned, you know, whatever it isn't, why bother? why not make up a new religion or just hold the ideas you have and let it be. why carry baggage?
|
|
|
Post by gandhi G on Jun 19, 2003 18:03:00 GMT -5
p.s. don't limit possibilties, if God does exist then his imagination would exceed all of ours put together.
|
|
|
Post by jesus on Jun 19, 2003 18:49:01 GMT -5
no, if they ask for an opinion then they want it.
you guys are too tense
|
|