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Post by Arkham on Dec 8, 2004 2:25:42 GMT -5
that was a bumper sticker on my friends 80's volkswagon van, i thought it was hilarious
but anyways, i've been thinking about and discussing amongst friends the role of mass marketing on a huge economic scale and it's effects on society recently.
where the stakes are so incredibly high and where ethical responsibility come into play with big business. it's an easy thing to talk about from a sheltered standpoint of affluent suburbia. i get a real impotent feeling from turning on the tv and watching commercials where you know how much psychological research has gone into trying to extract currency from your demographic. these groups of people trying to create the ultimate lifestyle fantasy to relate to us on a spiritual basis in order to maintain and increase revenues.
it's scary concept where millions and millions of people are getting so much of their values from a source that is endlessly determined to make them more selfish and independent. getting the consumer to relate to and love an image that is utterly contrived in everyway.
it's narcissism on a mass scale, and its contagious because of the lust of the nature of big business. the image America has presented to the rest of the world is the loud spoken charismatic that bursts into the room making sure that everyone is aware of him. and the image is intoxicating because of its escapism. even in countries where america is hated, the model for big business is adopted and gradually infiltrates the culture. it's a terrifying thought of where the road will take us.
is it plausible even at this point that people on a mass scale will put their foot down and say something bad is happeing here and we need drastic change? my brother said that nothing will change until the people themselves want it to, but maybe we're so damn addicted to it that won't want to give up that empty spiritual orgasm of ipod and gap commercials
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Ruby Soho
Go Away
mental slavery with the clever disguise
Posts: 423
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Post by Ruby Soho on Dec 8, 2004 23:00:49 GMT -5
Big business isn't a good thing, especially in the way that mom and pop industries are being put out of business due to large corporations. It is getting to the point where the only independent businesses that can be found are those that either cater to tourism or small-scale restaurants. It's sad to think that there are independent businesses being put out of business because some head honcho decides to put a Walmart in a community he had never seen.
If you look at Marx and Engels, they see capitalism in such a way that there is dialectical materialism. First there is the working class oppression of capitalism; then a revolution where workers rise up and seize the means of produc tion; and eventually there is communism, no economic exploitation, and all would work according to their ability and would be compensated according to their need. If the revolution isn't successful, it simply means that the working class is back to where it was to begin with. However, as far as Marx and Engels are concerned, it is inevitable that communism will eventually arise, it is just a matter of time, and a matter of determination of the working class.
So if you look at it that way, your brother is right, nothing will change until the people themselves want it to, but it is inevitable that they will. So that's positive...but if you don't see it that way, then that sucks.
I think that things will eventually change, only that the revolution won't start with working class, it will start with the hard-knocked. It will start with the homeless, the out-of-work, they will want equality and I think their ideals will rub off on the proletariat and then the proletariat will want equality with the bourgeois and suddenly we will have a revolution on our hands.
Hmm, that's what I think. That was a lot of rambling. But I have to agree with the ideals of Marxism in that way, I do believe it is inevitable that a revolution will occur, I am just not sure when that will happen.
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Post by xwheelercorex on Dec 10, 2004 6:14:55 GMT -5
The problem is not the homeless, nor the rich. The problem is in the middle. The upper middle class. The division between the poor and priviledged grows expotentially every year. The problem is comfort, and all of us, for the most part are in this area. We are bought and sold ideals and don't resist in the slightest. We are conditioned what to think, and suppressed from acheiving our goals. It is perfectly symbiotic however. It is our fear from being poor that drives the capitalist machine, and our ignorance and neglect that keeps us from being rich. We buy in until we can buy up, and it is in this mindset that we are being tied down. It is my opinion that, especially in western culture, communism will never work without some sort of catostrophic event taking place. Some sort of war or devistation so magnificent in scope that it topples the first world economy. America is certainly the head wolf in the pack, but that doesn't mean it is alone. I certainly don't want to see that day come. I am perfectly comfortable in my niche. It's warm.
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Post by neilsucks on Dec 11, 2004 18:27:35 GMT -5
but it's for that type of natural account alone that we will remain deep-seated in commercial imperialism. classism, as the origin of the problem, should hardly be the focus when we are all being perscribed copies of a uniform life. i personally believe we will always have a cetain cast that generations will lay themselves in, and simply take whatever personal, spiritual and physical 'improvements' that develop. it been universal in the past. i would set my watch by it. by my own account i know what needs to be changed about me, to be stamped as "ideal". and the fucking scary thing is that it works. i'm against it all to the nth degree but that doesn't change the fact that i live through the daily pipe dream of being something better than a fat, annoying loser that people can only mildly bear. it's sick to have such a profound loathing for the petty-bourgoisie and burgher for what they are, and still hope that as a contender in the ratrace, you will emerge at the same or better as your fellow citizens; however 'better' is defined. you know you would wear the same smug expression if you should misplace your integrity, only to have it replaced with that oh-so-confortable carbon copy of the jones'. no one can dispute your place in the world now! it's so fucked up, but there is no denying that it is true. flush your morals. flush your self-worth. flush anything that really has significance. hold on to your swiffer wet-jet, your yacht and your new boobs. individually, it's possible on a microscopic scale, but as a capitalist oligarchy nothing is going to change.
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Post by HB on Dec 11, 2004 20:20:30 GMT -5
I think that things will eventually change, only that the revolution won't start with working class, it will start with the hard-knocked. It will start with the homeless, the out-of-work, they will want equality and I think their ideals will rub off on the proletariat and then the proletariat will want equality with the bourgeois and suddenly we will have a revolution on our hands. i don't think marx could ever take into consideration the opium-like addiction the economy has created with escapism through celebrity worship and self-worth defined by surfaces. it's a spiritual and psychological stranglehold that relates to every walk of life. i read that in some totally impoverished regions in the world, an incredible number of people still have televisions. it's like smoking in place of eating. self-loathing and insanity to some degree is a common response to the "ideals" we are fed. constantly being told that if we could only be this or that then we would be the true 'us'. the thing that makes us not us is a desire for whatever we do to be noticed. we're like a generation living life consciously to create a story |
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Post by neilsucks on Dec 13, 2004 10:26:21 GMT -5
self-loathing and insanity to some degree is a common response to the "ideals" we are fed. constantly being told that if we could only be this or that then we would be the true 'us'. the thing that makes us not us is a desire for whatever we do to be noticed. exactly! no part of it make sense. it's such a transparant conundrum that it seems the world should have opened it's eyes long ago. well shit, guess what. it did! mcdonalds knows their shit is shit. mtv knows their shit is shit and malboro knows their shit is shit. will the ceo's stop production because they are worried about their 7 year old daughters growing up in slimy world that they helped create? nope. they promote their own particular poisons even more. you would think (or hope) that no person or company could get away with such a reckless disregard for morality and life... but what the fuck, what's a few hundred ruined lives for a extra $106,545 net gain per annum? finally i can afford that extra negro butler that i've always wanted. we've been told who we are, and we've been told the secret of how to be the perfect person ( psst: only date hot babes, only wear versace suits and only drink dry martinis). the fact is ideals and universals are bullshit. the reason we are who we are is we are who we are. your life may not apply to mine, and that's totally fine. i can be totally content with one hot dog, one cup of juice, 10 cigarettes and four hugs a day. but all of a sudden i want more out of life. i want to be somebody i'm not, so i can briefly impress somebody i don't care about. hahaha, it's so impossibly ironic. it's so absurd. it's fucking happening and every single person who has ever turned on a tv knows it. we need not discuss that ideal image that's being handed down, that part is clear. we need to figure out why civilization understands and contemns the situation and yet does nothing to better it. |
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