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Post by Arkham on Mar 8, 2004 17:58:25 GMT -5
the concepts of heaven and hell are bad for your brain and your soul. why does there have to be rewards beyond the joy you experience from acting on love? why should we be taught that we deserve any kind of post-mortem activity? wouldn't it be better if we could just accept the fact that we are nothing and that is spectacular and beautiful within itself. it's too bad people crave control.
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Post by Sushi Destroyer on Mar 8, 2004 22:05:13 GMT -5
Ah, Brandon. Providing my daily profound and insightful e-epiphany.
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Post by t on Mar 8, 2004 22:20:16 GMT -5
the concepts of heaven and hell are bad for your brain and your soul. why does there have to be rewards beyond the joy you experience from acting on love? why should we be taught that we deserve any kind of post-mortem activity? wouldn't it be better if we could just accept the fact that we are nothing and that is spectacular and beautiful within itself. it's too bad people crave control. as a christian, i do believe i will be rewarded in heaven for even the smallest things.. but the reason i do these things is because of what you said.. it brings joy, which is a reward in itself. im just thankful that i serve a god who notices everything and will reward it.. even if i feel it doesnt need rewarding. now.. to say that because someone doesnt accept the fact that they are "nothing" means that they crave control.. hmm.. i think i disagree there, too. but my fish died today.. and im still a little shaken up.. so im going to spare you guys my reply. for now!
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Post by Arkham on Mar 9, 2004 2:42:42 GMT -5
the problem is that the concept of eternal reward or eternal punishment being introduced at all sets down a foundation of consequence. the traditional view (though i'm not even sure if it is biblical) of a hell is eternal physical suffering and the flip side being eternal grandeur. the imagery and ideas of horrific extremes and terrible evils creates in the mind a more expanded knowledge of these evils thus instilling us with the ability to desire them. this is the concept of adam and eve. they were both naked and happy until desire spawned a fear of the unknown and they began wanting that which they did not need. this is when they realized they were naked, and that their bodies were no longer enough as they were. they needed clothing because they feared being naked. there is no point in even commenting whether or not this story is true (to history) because it still teaches the same thing regardless and if anyone is too busy trying to convince themselves and the world that the story is not historically accurate and therefore invalid, they are missing the point entirely. it is this knowledge of evils that carves out how much more we must process for our salvation, which is in the entirely wrong direction we are to be heading in if we wish to gain enlightened or be truly Christ-like, which are really the same thing. i am not trying to pervert anything here either. i believe that christianity is a perversion of our natural function as human beings and that principle based philosophies work much better on large as well as small scales of human community. i believe there are fundamental flaws in Jesus' teaching that work well at maintaining commitment, however cause spiritual limitations as a result of so many black lines drawn. if there was only the gospels there would be much less organization and therefore less bullshit being introduced into the equation. if people simply meditated on the principles of love Christ taught instead of trying so painstakingly hard to mould yourself to such precise specifics of what a christian is supposed to look like, everybody would get a lot more accomplished and there would be a lot less character falsity. one of my only beefs with Christ's teaching is where he says that no one can come to the Father except through him. this may be true that no one can come to the patriarchal father figure presented by judeo-christianity, but to say that there is damnation apart from it is a mistake, i believe. black lines are blinders.
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Post by t on Mar 9, 2004 20:46:52 GMT -5
if people simply meditated on the principles of love Christ taught instead of trying so painstakingly hard to mould yourself to such precise specifics of what a christian is supposed to look like, everybody would get a lot more accomplished and there would be a lot less character falsity. ive noticed.. that a lot of christians DO actually try to focus on one aspect of Jesus's teaching.. like how you said.. the love he taught. but, ive also noticed.. that people tend to do that.. because they dont want to focus on anything else in the bible. i feel that christians should not just choose parts from here and there and apply only those things to their lives. as for the other things you wrote.. it was more like random thoughts that dont go together or really mean anything at all..
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Post by Arkham on Mar 10, 2004 13:50:50 GMT -5
as for the other things you wrote.. it was more like random thoughts that dont go together or really mean anything at all.. or maybe you don't want to understand. it does make sense and i'm sure it will for the people on this board who have an interest in discovering truth as opposed to a holy spirit high. also, i agree with you that it is not good to pick and choose morality based on what is most comfortable for you, because within that is selfish desire. however, there are literally 1000s and 1000s of prophetic jewish texts that were not included in the bible, on top of the fact that only a fraction of Christ's life is talked about in the bible. the bible is not the beginning and ending of what people interpreted that the hebrew god was telling them, they are only the books that made the cut based on what was most popular at the time when it was being put together.
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Post by Jonny on Mar 10, 2004 19:11:19 GMT -5
i don't think jesus or his apostles took notes on what stories were popular...
it's a possibility that they chose the books which best summed up or represented the life and works of christ. also, keep in mind that the christians putting all this together were most likely praying to god for discernment, to figure out which texts should go in the bible.
that was so random of me...but i need to start somewhere!
peace bra
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Post by t on Mar 11, 2004 3:21:11 GMT -5
i agree with you that it is not good to pick and choose morality based on what is most comfortable for you, because within that is selfish desire. dude.. thats exactly what being a christian means to me! i cant live my life the way that is most comfortable for myself.. and ive given up those "selfish desires" to live for god.
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Post by t on Mar 11, 2004 3:23:02 GMT -5
i agree with you that it is not good to pick and choose morality based on what is most comfortable for you, because within that is selfish desire. dude.. thats exactly what being a christian means to me! i cant live my life the way that is most comfortable for myself.. and ive given up those "selfish desires" to live for god.
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Post by Arkham on Mar 11, 2004 15:18:21 GMT -5
the problem with the line of thinking that i can clearly see you are following is the classic christian one. you have absolutely no interest in carrying an intelligent discussion here, you only want to plant a seed in me and pray for it in hopes that i will join your side of the fence. you don't have any interest in learning from something that conflicts with your beliefs because you've already throw any credibility out the window when you recognized that i'm not a christian. this is self-glorifying ignorance and it reminds me further why today's brand of christianity is so heinus. and jonny, i was actually talking about the large part of the bible before the new testament, hence the jewish prophetic texts.
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Post by Arkham on Mar 11, 2004 15:22:57 GMT -5
ive noticed.. that a lot of christians DO actually try to focus on one aspect of Jesus's teaching.. like how you said.. the love he taught. jesus constantly reminded everyone that their religion was useless without love. the logistics and specifics are petty excuses for humans to hold onto control and to tell themselves that they're good at being religious.
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Post by Jonny on Mar 11, 2004 19:53:47 GMT -5
well, i should've said that ANY prophets working on any parts of the bible were praying to god for discernment on what to use. they weren't just some businessmen wanting to create some more "left behind" books. oh man, i shouldn't of brought those books up.....ewww
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Post by t on Mar 11, 2004 20:48:37 GMT -5
the problem with the line of thinking that i can clearly see you are following is the classic christian one. you have absolutely no interest in carrying an intelligent discussion here, you only want to plant a seed in me and pray for it in hopes that i will join your side of the fence. you don't have any interest in learning from something that conflicts with your beliefs because you've already throw any credibility out the window when you recognized that i'm not a christian. this is self-glorifying ignorance and it reminds me further why today's brand of christianity is so heinus. and jonny, i was actually talking about the large part of the bible before the new testament, hence the jewish prophetic texts. haha. i love how i cant say what i believe with being self glorified, and ignorant. everything ive said on this board had flowed with what youve been saying.. hence a "discussion". as you are saying what you believe.. so.. am i. i do believe most things that "classic christians" do. and i guess you are doing the "classic" assumptions about me.. saying i only want to plant a seed and stuff.. what the heck.
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Post by autumn on Mar 12, 2004 22:05:19 GMT -5
I don't think it sounds like a bunch of random thoughts that don't go together, it actually struck me as being rather well thought out. And yes, t, I'm a Christian. I agree with Brandon when he says that too many of us completely ignore any argument thrown at us and instead preach. It's important to stand up for your beliefs, but that doesn't mean that you disregard the beliefs of others. That's just ignorance.
Personally I don't think that I'm anything more than nothing, but I do believe that we're here for God's purpose. Does that mean that I'm going to completely disagree with what you've posted? No. I think we give ourselves too much credit... That in the grand scheme, yes, we are nothing.
That actually is applicable within Christianity too, but that's besides the point. And people these days are control freaks, no one can argue that.
Meh, there wasn't much of a point to this point other than to say that it's not a horrible thing to listen to the beliefs of others. It keeps us from being ignorant creatures who live with our heads stuck up our butts walking down the streets.
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Post by Arkham on Mar 13, 2004 2:40:27 GMT -5
it's true that i was being too harsh and i apologize. looking back at what i wrote it seems very spiteful and intimidating and that's not really the kind of person i am. i think i react so vehemently against what i perceive to be pride in place of character because i've seen it in myself so much in the past and i think you hate most what is inside of you.
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