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Post by Arkham on Nov 8, 2003 9:37:42 GMT -5
The link relationship between pagandom and christianity was close back then.. until eventually the church, and whats his name, went out and destroyed the majority of pagan culture by burning ancient sacrad tabernacles and books...
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Post by Sushi Destroyer on Nov 11, 2003 21:57:38 GMT -5
does this mean you're giving up your job?
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Post by Arkham on Nov 12, 2003 13:40:40 GMT -5
hahaha yes, it does. mary and i have worked it out so i will be here until after the christmas season otherwise i would be screwing them up the arse.
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Post by Justin on Nov 24, 2003 13:57:11 GMT -5
what is everyone looking for in life? it is either truth or not the truth. i believe i am looking for truth. now we all have to realize and agree, no matter what religion, philosophy, etc. you believe, that there is an ultimate truth. no one can empirically prove who's "truth" is the truth but there is a "truth". people have been trying for thousands of years and we still don't know. as humans we can believe something and have faith in something..but it doesn't mean it's true. i can believe and have faith that the world is flat..but it doesn't make it truth. but the point is...there is an ultimate truth out there. will we ever know what it is? who knows. was david korresh right? who knows. people just want to believe in something to make sense of life and give them selfworth. it's what makes us human.
what i'm going to say will probably not make sense to some but if it does...great! just try to follow along and piece together my jumbled thoughts. these ideas are very broad but have a central point so keep reading along.
i believe the world is too complicated. everything needs to be simplified and we as a race need to reverse or go against our assumed "progress of civilization". to understand this idea...follow with me please...we need to first understand what makes us human. what makes us, as we believe, special and different from the rest of the living organisms on this planet, universe, whatever. we believe we're above dogs, lions, monkeys, fish, cockroaches because of our ability to think. so because we're able to think, understand, and eventually manipulate our surroundings...we're a higher species. i don't know about that. everything in this world has a purpose. you can not deny this idea. on the very simplist and bioligical level...everything has a purpose and that purpose is to keep the world going. everything is balanced and cyclical. the sun and rain provides nutrients for soil, soil returns the favor to plants and microorganisms, plants do their thing for herbivore organisms (including humans), meat eaters eat the plant eaters, and the cycle ends or returns to the start by returning to the earth when organisms excrete waste or die and decompose. everything is connected. now as humans and as a "higher" species, where do we fit into the cycle or a better question is how do we help this cycle. i dunno. from what i can see we're not really helping the earth. we're destroying it. how is it that of all the organisms on the earth, we are the only organisms that don't comply. other organisms live according to neccessity. they don't abuse the earth and deplete it's resources to extinction. what's the common demoniator here? what can we deduct from what makes us a "higher" species and our place in the cycle of life? to me it means the very thing that makes us human makes us a threat to the world/life on earth. make sense so far? now going back to the idea of the "progress of civilation". as a species we believe we're continually advancing. we can use our minds to manipulate the world via science. what are we trying to accomplish in all this technology and knowledge? a common sense answer is to sustain and improve life. we're trying to make life as easy as possible and to avoid pain and ultimately not die. nothing really wants to die. but we have to. we must fufill our duty in the cycle of life to return to the earth and keep the whole life thing going. so a common question i ask people is what good is science and technology in the grand scheme of things? ok...aspirin relieves pain. cancer research helps cancer victims live longer. the problem i see is...the cost of all this. is headache relief or a machine that can tabulate and store information worth the inevitable end of life? people say we're advancing but what are we advancing to? if this made sense so far..the next question is so what do we do? dunno. how do we stop an entire world so blind to what is going on? how do we stop governments? how do we stop people wanting to get richer and willing to do whatever it takes to do so? what makes us different from other organisms on this earth is our abiity to think. the mind in itself is not a bad thing...but it's what drives and controls it. a gun by itself can't do anything but when a person uses it to do what is not right...who's to blame? the person of course. using that analogy, the mind is a powerful thing and what has a large part in controlling it is self interest or greed. do lions get greedy and eat every zebra to the point of extinction? what makes us human makes us the downfall of the world.
i make these points/realizations/assumptions to make a point. i don't have the time to finish now but to sum up the rest...we need to go back to simplicity. if that means eating straight off the land and be like animals..maybe that's it. the life we live now is not the truth. it can't be. all we know is what we see and experience. there's a gigantic limitation to that. how can we claim to know anything if we can't even see behind us when we're looking forward. that means we'll never fully know. living to make money and buy a porsche...what's that really mean? how does that benefit the world? it doesn't. and that's just it. whatever makes us happy at the moment is all that matters to us. screw the world and life all together..sad isn't it? hope some of this stuff made sense. i want to hear other people's thoughts/ideas and i'll try to finish the point i was trying to make later..if anyone is interested. peace
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Post by Arkham on Nov 24, 2003 15:36:16 GMT -5
the points you raise are all very interesting and deserve it's own topic within itself. you are right that as humans we have stepped out of our boundaries as to what is appropriate for us to take from the land as we have claimed the whole world for our own benefit, thinking we are above everything else because of our intelligence. within this, as you mentioned, we have become irreverent, unthankful, and irresponsible with the gifts we have been given. advertisements tell us that we DESERVE the best quality picture on our televisions and the least amount of discomfort money can buy. as many have paralleled before, we are much like the romans in our time. most of our basic needs are covered in rich parts of the world like north america so we start trying to fulfill deeper needs of the soul but based on false beliefs of what is actually needed. these needs are actually desires and the pursuit of these desires bind us and begin to control us. i agree with you about ultimate truths and i used to hold the idea that an ultimate truth could be tied to a specific religious belief, but i don't really believe that anymore. i'm starting to believe more in manifestation of reality through faith. this does not dictate that this is ultimate reality but i think the hindus have it pretty close with their system of having what the christians call "idols" where an individual can relate to a something specific and tangible like a little statue. now contrary to popular belief, hinduism is not polytheistic, it's simply taking snippets of the vast enormous truth in total for laymen to understand more easily. the catholics do the same sort of thing with all their icons and saints. it's funny how vehemently opposed to eastern religion western evangelical christianity can be when they use a lot of the same tools, unknowingly. anyway, back to the core issue, the scary thing about what is happening to the world is that capitalism is run by business, and business, when ethics are removed, becomes an unstoppable force where everything is decided by "cost-effectiveness" which destroys what is beautiful and excellent. capitalism is what the world is moving towards and when a whole world adopts the selfish values of the west the whole world is going to be responsible for the social fallout. when people start thinking they are more important, and deserve the best picture and sound money can buy people start doing perverse, anti-social things and it just snowballs from there. progress seems to think dictate that we're moving towards some kind of better state with flying cars and tours to mars but everyone seems to be ignoring the big purple elephant that is staring us in the face. even when we get there, who will save us from ourselves?
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Post by Sushi Destroyer on Dec 8, 2003 17:32:15 GMT -5
i agree with what justin said - the whole simplicity thing has been on my mind a lot lately, and i feel like we're just detrimenting the earth in general. i wish there weren't so many people on the earth and so much human life to support.
maybe it's one of those hippie things where we return to nature, who wants to take a van out to a farm and do lsd with me
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Post by Arkham on Dec 8, 2003 18:07:33 GMT -5
everything goes in cycles. creation is a duality which means its destruction is just as important as its inception. this is the circle of life as mufasa stated. we can fight for this hopeless little planet but we're only delaying the inevitable. read chuck palahniuk. he wrote fight club and some other titles i want to read. i would normally call myself pretentious for referencing a contemporary author as popular and quoted as him, but he is really quite brilliant in his perception of the whole scheme of how humans must live in harmony with the rest of existence. if he sparks your interest, read up on hindu philosophy because it will blow you on your ass. reading up on that stuff for me has been like if you people watch for a long time, or play music and then you take a course on psychology or music and everything you read or are taught just articulates everything you already understand about it.
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Post by Sushi Destroyer on Dec 12, 2003 23:41:03 GMT -5
the hindu philosophy of the four stages of existence? the cycle thing i learned about a couple of weeks ago... the problem is that we wont be alive for the good part, we're in the worst quarter, if not the second worst of the cycle. are you following me? or am i talking about the wrong thing
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Post by theskyisfalling on Feb 1, 2004 0:41:45 GMT -5
dy'all think it's crazy that the majority of humans who say we are a higher more intellegent species are the same humans do so much without thinking about what the fuk they are doing they end up reducing us to a lifeform thats actually dumber then most? this might be the wrong thread to post tis subject but you guys are making some good points. when i was younger i used to think that animals just assumed us dumb creatures because we need cars and houses and shit like that. i wish i was a cat in the wooded jungle imstead of being a human in a concrete jungle. except then i couldn't listen to bob marley yoooooo
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Post by stever (dtc) on Mar 3, 2004 3:58:53 GMT -5
I became a christian in 96 but got serious about it 98 -- although a lot of christians are retards, there are a large chunk of them that keep on the downlo that are actually representing the gospel. the reason a lot of these people arent known too well to the public eye is because they're too busy serving to make asses of themselves outside of marilyn manson concerts.
although there's no excuse for christians being stupid -- look at all the crap athiests do.. and agnostics... and buddhists... etc etc... people are people, and people do stupid stuff all the time.
I figure, if I die and I'm wrong then I really didn't waste too much -- im interested in the bible. But if i'm right then I'm fully hooked up...
--
I think the church has done a lot of lameass stuff in recent times. I think we've lost the whole 'discipleship' aspect of our ministies. Tons of people accept Jesus as the payment to their sin and such but never go anywhere from that. Like Steve said, the alpha program and all these things for new believers -- usually its just petty videos and taped sermons by older men with quirky accents. Sure, some of the points are good -- but its not discipling.
One way I got out of "church" (meaning the christian culture) while still serving God was helping out at the street ministries... serving meals to people who aren't jossin the bling bling and stuff. I'm not joking when I say that I saw more people there that loved the Lord and were passionate about the Lord than I'd ever seen in any of the churches i've ever been to.
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Post by Steve M on Mar 6, 2004 18:51:44 GMT -5
I figure, if I die and I'm wrong then I really didn't waste too much -- im interested in the bible. But if i'm right then I'm fully hooked up... thats one of the stupid things ive ever heard in my life. pfff, heaven the lord the lord the lord the lord the lord is embarrased
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Post by Loud on Mar 7, 2004 22:40:49 GMT -5
steve, how is that stupid?how can you be sure that there isnt a heaven, and why badmouth someone who seems to be beginning to find what he is looking for?Not cool.
and tyler, alot of what you have posted seems to be right on with what i think when i read these posts.One small comment stuck in my mind though,when you said there is a good chance that we just ended up here by a chemical anomaly (not word for word,obviously).Do you realize that the odds of that happening are so small it is considered a mathematical impossibility?However,that doesn't mean it couldn't have or didn't happen (if that makes sense).
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Post by t on Mar 9, 2004 3:16:08 GMT -5
I figure, if I die and I'm wrong then I really didn't waste too much -- im interested in the bible. But if i'm right then I'm fully hooked up... errr.. i kinda kinda see what you mean.. and ive heard people say that before.. but i think that is more like.. something you say to people to make your belief seem more practical. i bet it would be pretty tough living your life "for Christ" if you figure theres a 50-50 chance he might not even be real.
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Post by t2 on Mar 9, 2004 3:34:01 GMT -5
I think the church has done a lot of lameass stuff in recent times. I think we've lost the whole 'discipleship' aspect of our ministies. Tons of people accept Jesus as the payment to their sin and such but never go anywhere from that. Like Steve said, the alpha program and all these things for new believers -- usually its just petty videos and taped sermons by older men with quirky accents. Sure, some of the points are good -- but its not discipling. i dont think that programs such as alpha just put in a video, feed people a meal, and then send em home.. the alpha program i went to.. had believers in god who were there for questions, discussion, prayers, and friendships that continued far after the program, i know i sound cheesy.. but thats what I call discipleship, at least.
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Post by Steve M on Mar 9, 2004 22:15:14 GMT -5
well, i didnt say there wasnt a heaven did i? besides "t" sorta took care of answering that one for ya. does that not seem like a total cop-out to you?
plus i wasnt badmouthing the dude... just that certian sentence.
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