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Post by holygoat0106 on Apr 20, 2003 23:09:38 GMT -5
wiccan is not something that suits my lifestyle, i feel it is my life style, so to answer your question, yes, is a path to true enlightenment for me. i find it to be one of the most facinating and comforting theories among all the others out there. i didnt come upon wicca as a way to justify my actions, good or bad. i was a christian, a friend died, i got very depressed and i was already into some esoteric study, but decided to delve more deeply into the practises that come along with the beliefs. in fact, i dont know whether to call myself a true wiccan or a neo paganist because the lines between the two are so thin. i was born under the sign of capricorn, the goat, 0106 first six of the year, symbolizing intuition and knowledge, my basic principal is karma, as my ruling planet is saturn. i am ruled by the laws of karma. almost fanatically. i wont talk to people unless i am spoken to, i dont act, i react, i believe that things dont have to be so complicated as long as youre pure in thought and deed, perfect love and perfect trust and so forth. i could talk your ear off with all this shit and what my beliefs do for me, as a soul. but your answer is yes, it is my enlightenment because it is something that makes me feel empowered and not so weak in a huge world, it turns my wheels inside my head and gets me thinking and questioning things, much like you..,.....STOP it!!!!
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Post by Arkham on Apr 22, 2003 22:15:41 GMT -5
well, to be totally honest with you, and this may well make you hate me, but i don't see the qualities you described in this post in the person that you've presented to me. personally, i find it difficult to trust people who say things like "i wont talk to people unless i am spoken to, i dont act, i react." there's just too many "i's" involved. testimonials (especially from christians) set off serious alarms in my head. i rarely feel like people are being honest when talking about what (positive) impact their religion has had in their life. i find the most sincere people about their beliefs say very little about them in most cases because they are self-assured and don't try to make up for their sub-conscious inadequacy with public approval. i know this doesn't align with my own character all the time because of my angry demeanor at the beginning, but i am trying, just as you appear to want to be. remember to always be honest with where you are and not get too ahead of yourself, because that leads to insincerity. i am not trying to hurt you or put you and your beliefs down, i just don't want to see people commiting the same subtle self-deceptions as i have.
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Post by holygoat0106 on Apr 24, 2003 23:48:26 GMT -5
honestly, i dont mean to come off like what you describe, i just expected you wanted an all out answer and i just let out what i had at the time. i am very self assured in my faiths. its just my faith is very much a taboo thing and i just want people to know that it isnt as bad a they say(all the stereotypical shit). my own fiance doesnt even like it, so i constantly feel like i have to argue the point of it all and let people know that it isnt like they say it is in the movies or lore or whatever... the thing is that i personally had alot and i mean alot of problems in my life, i still deal with them, you got me, nothing can really soothe wounds, but if u want to live and at least function in a normal way, you have to have something that inspires you to do something with your life. im just too tired now to speak any further on this discussion. my brain is tired.
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Post by Roju on May 3, 2003 22:31:53 GMT -5
Okay. EVOLUTION. This word strikes fear into the hearts of soo many of us Christians. Why is that? Well, because it may be something that most of us have a very poor understanding of. Please... learn what it is all about before you decide that is either bunk or true. Chances are it's not what your mom and dad told you it was. Monkey to man... not that simple folks. I'm not a creationsist. I'm an evolutionary theist. What's the difference!? ok, creationists believe in a 6 day litteral creation... 6 days being some indeffinite amount of time. They also believe that all the early homonid specimens were just different races of human beings. This is not true. The early homonid specimens were in some cases less human than modernday chimpanzees. This has been shown by molecular (mtDNA) and morphological evidence (skulls and bones- skull bones especially as they evolve faster than other bones). Recent (1997-2003) mtDNA studies have proven Neandertals to not be much of a close relative of humans either. Evolutionary theists believe in a creator, in my case, God, who started it all off creating the original matter that resulted in the big bang. I don't take the 6 day account of creation as the litteral historical account of creation. For those interested in this, you should look up the origins of the creation story. Why it was written the way it was. I can't remember some of the sources for this.. but I'll find them and post them. very interesting. Many oldtestement scholars don't take the 6 day creation as a literal 6 days. The creation story was fashioned from a common polytheistic beliefe from ancient Babyalon. It was adopted as it was a familiar creation story and reversed to show the characteristic of a loving, creative, and powerful God. You might wanna look this up.
If I took the whole Bible litterally, God would have feathers, hands, and Jesus would be a lamb. I know those things are obviously figurative.. yes, very obvious.. but I think Christians today are neglecting the fact that we are supposed to question everything and hold fast to what is good and true. Too many of us just coast through our Christianity and don't delve deep into the "hows" and "whys." if something seems weird to you... research it and find out why it seems odd. Way too many Christians are soo vaery insecure about their faith and don't challenge themselves enough. If I was to take the Bible as a completely literal historical source, the earth is under 7000 years old (tracing back through the family lineages). How can "scince" say that it's 4.7 billion years old?? Well, creationists have that coveres... you see, those days were just really long.. I guess the moon wan't orbiting the earth, and the earth wasn't orbiting the sun yet...?? hmmm. "but I heard that carbon dating isn't accrate." - It is very accurate.. depending on what you're testing on. There are different methods of radioactively dating materials that are geologically very accurate.
When I talk to a lot of christians about evolution, they get mad and frustrated.. I attribute this to a poor understanding of what evolution actually is and an insecurity in their faith. Christians need to be confident in their faith and have a propper understanding of what they believe so that when we are challenged, we can keep cool and have reasonable explanations. We need to be open to what others have to say, meaning that we need to be more receptive to other opinions and not so quick to judge. Judgement is not ours to pass!
And as far as Darwin (1859) is concerned.. he was brilliant, his ideas were very new for his time and very original! and just as with many other scientists... he made mistakes and had lots of ideas that he published. Why he gets such a hard time is because he layed the framework for something that was VERY controvercial at the time! Not many dared to question their preconcieved notion of creation before Darwin brought forth his hypothesese and theories... oh yeah, and he published all this in 1859, not exaclty during the techological revolution.
I don't think people have much of a grasp on how critically these theories and hypothesises have been analyzed. Evolution is undeniable.. it happens everyday! Why dosen't Aids have a cure? Because the Aids virus mutates and evolves at an alarming rate.. we can't keep up with it. Why do we have a tiny vestigeal tail, why do almost all vertebrate embryos look almost identicle, why do we have over 200 identicle genes with e coli, why do some snakes have tiny hind limbs that start to grow during embryonic development and recede in further development, why do whales have hip bones and femures (leg bones)?? ever notice the "dew claw" on a dogs foot/leg? that's a vestigial structure too (features or organs that play no significant role anymore). If you require more exapmles.. I have tonnes more and lots of info on them. An interesting experiment was done where a common gene for LIMB development that occurs in chicken and ALL snakes (but not active anymore in snakes *evolution*) was "activated" and put ino a snake embryo.. the snake grew limbs. This is why snakes are considered tetrapods.. 4 limbed..
Well.. man I could keep on going.. but I'll let people tell me how backwards I am and how very wrong I am as well..
PS: EVOLUTION: Decent with modification and also change in allele frequency. There's your definition. It means that changes in the genes are passed on to offspring and then the offspring with beneficial traits survive to produce their own offspring.
Woo! Offspring! haha
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Post by Tyler on May 5, 2003 14:01:46 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is a vestigal trait, but my favourite evolutionary flaw is the fact that our trachea and esophagus cross, making it possible for us to choke.
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Post by ROJU on May 5, 2003 19:07:47 GMT -5
hmmm... that's true.. but it's also the reason we can speak and create a multi-octave/pitch form of speach. Other primates don't have their larnynx as low as ares and thus don't have the same range of vocals/pitch Homo sapiens do.
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Post by Tyler on May 6, 2003 12:52:41 GMT -5
We COULD have a seperate hole for ingesting food, keeping our airway's clear. However, the use of the tongue and teeth in speech is somewhat integral. It's strange that animals that don't use language evolved with this trait, as it serves no pupose for them. If life exists on other planets, they probably wouldn't have that. There's a word for that kind of thing, but I forget what it is.
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Post by Steve M on May 6, 2003 14:49:32 GMT -5
ha ha roju said homo
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Post by chad loin on May 6, 2003 14:54:04 GMT -5
I'm going to choke both of you bastards if you don't shut-up!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the hell are you talking about? Roju are you even a christian. ......but seriously, it's fuggin' awesome to read this scheit. Could you guy's suggest some sort of book to read that would serve as a good introduction into evolutionary theory? (Woah, that's broad, but maybe there is that kind of book or bookS?)
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Post by Tyler on May 6, 2003 15:46:46 GMT -5
The Origin of Species - Charles Darwin
Haven't read it myself, but I guess that would be a good place to start. It's probably a little dated though. Ask your friendly, neighborhood librarian for more information.
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Post by friendly librarian on May 6, 2003 15:53:51 GMT -5
hey chad, when are you going to be rockin spain again? email me jaeson@newworldonfire.com cool
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Post by ROJU on May 6, 2003 23:16:39 GMT -5
Woah Chad! Yes I am a Christian hahaha... I'm just not afraid to question what I have believed for soo long.. by questioning my beliefs.. I have learned a lot more and have read a lot more scripture along the way. In turn, i've developed a much closer relationship to God. Maybe not everyone feels that they need to find out as much as they can abot their faith and what is behing their faith and how it came to be... but then some people are fine with what ever people tell them. Hmm, good book.... "Genome" by Matt Ridley very interesting.. and easy to read even if you have no science background.
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Post by Roju on May 7, 2003 0:52:29 GMT -5
another good book is "the seven daughters of eve" don't know the author... but it's a new book-bestseller.. so it'll be easy to find
It's about the evolution and migration of (yes steve...) HOMOnids out of Africa and the genetic/molecular proof/evidence for this migration and evolution of modern man.
Really good book
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Post by chad loin on May 7, 2003 11:41:40 GMT -5
Rawjue, eye was being sarcastic. Thanks for the suggested reading material!!
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Post by Roju on May 7, 2003 22:28:31 GMT -5
Woah Chad! Woah! WOAH!
You're welcome bronco.
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